Joined: Apr 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 51 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Jesus: man or God? « Result #1 on Nov 6, 2009, 7:35pm »
Jehovah's Witnesses (the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in Brooklyn, New York) downplay Jesus' use of "I AM" in John's Gospel, chapter 8, verse 58. He says, ``Before Abraham was, I am."
Oneself could speculate that he was claiming to be a Judge, since he alludes, in John 10.34, to Psalm 82.6, which says, ``I have said, Ye {unjust judges in verse 2} [are] gods and all of you [are] children of the most High" (King James' Authorized Version).
In Deuter-o-nomy 32.39, Moses describes God in this capacity, ``See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand" (New American Standard Bible, (c) 1960 et seq.).
Protestants retort that these words are found in the Jews' Greek translation of the Old Testament (called the Septuagint) in Exodus 3.14, i.e., "ego eimi."
Ron Rhodes has questions for the J.W.s in his book "Reasoning From the Scriptures With the Jehovah's Witnesses":--
Don't you think that first-century Jews, who would have been very familiar with the Septuagint, would have seen this connection beteween the two verses?
Since all the "I am" sayings are clearly intended to be related to each other in John's Gospel, why does the [Watchtower's] New World Translation correctly translate "ego eimi" as "I am" throughout the Gospel of John except in John 8:58, where it translates "ego eimi" as "I have been"? Shouldn't there be consistency in translation?
Why would the want to stone & seize him (John 8.59 & 10.39) if he only saying that he & the Father-God are one in purpose (as one might speculate about John 10.30)? _________________________________________ * -- The Trinity means that God, who is one being, revealed himself in 3 personal manifestations: The Father offers Salvation (reconciliation) to all people; The Son secures Salvation by vicarious satifaction of Justice; The Holy Spirit operates in the life of the Believer/ Faithful as a "Comforter" (John 14.16, (Authorized Version)/ "Helper" (NASB), i.e. the Paraclete/ para-kl{ee}ton, that is, one who "comes along-side." {ee = eta}
** -- as distinguished from IBN, i.e. a figurative son - e.g. an IBN of the road is a traveler (-Rick Rood in "The Compact Guide [to] World Religions," published circa 1995 -- recommended by D. James Kennedy).
Joined: Apr 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 51 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Bible's paradoxes, variants « Result #3 on Oct 8, 2009, 2:40pm »
Dr. Bart Ehrman, an agnostic Prof. of Religious Studies at the Univ. of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, was an adherent of Christianity (which he studied at the Evangelical Wheaton College). Recently (in April - confer CoastToCoastAM.com) he cited, as justification of his unbelief, the apparent discrepancy about what the voice from Heaven says at Jesus' baptism.
Matthew's Gospel, chapter 3, verse 17, says, "~This is~ my beloved son ~in whom~ I am well-pleased." Mark 1.11 & Luke 3.22 say, ~You are~ my beloved son, ~in you~ I am well pleased."
Isaiah 42:1 says, in the very literal New American Standard Bible (pub. in 1960), "Behold My Servant, whom I uphold, My chosen [in whom] My soul delights."
(It continues, "I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations." At Jesus' baptism, the Holy Spirit flies down to him as a dove - Luke 3.22.)
A possible, partial explanation is the translation of Matthew's Gospel into Greek from "Hebrew," (according to Papias, {a pupil of Polycarp, who was the Apostle John's disciple}, as recorded by Eusebius in the 4th century of the Common, or Christian, Era), i.e. from Jewish Aramaic, which is based on the language of the Chaldean, Neo-Babylonian Empire.
Maybe someone borrowed Greek explanatory words like those which appear in Isaiah 42.1, which do not translate Hebrew words. Perhaps Matthew's translator is quoting the Jews' Greek translation which they made before the C.E., known as the Septuagint translation?
Joined: Apr 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 51 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Chr'n Rules of Engagement « Result #4 on Mar 11, 2009, 4:46pm »
Don't go away angry, ---- I won't say it.
Here -- allow the Apostle \POW-los\, among other Bible-writers, to lecture oneself, if you would (in accord with his 1st epistle to the church at Thessalonika, chapter 5, verse 14).
I'll set up the Scripture-Scalpel (as in Ephesians 6:10 - 17* & in Hebrews 4:12). Then you can let it impale oneself. Never mind the liver-shiver. It's a good kind of hurt (Heb. 12:11).
Having listened to Apologetics-broadcasts like that of the Stand To Reason organization, I can recommend, sight unseen, a recently written a book entilted "Tactics: A Game Plan for Discussing Your Christian Convictions" by its Chief, Greg Koukl (soteriologically mon-ergistic; sometime clergyman for a Four-square Gospel church in Los Angeles County, a syn-ergistic denomination). One of his motto[e]s is, You don't have to be argumentative when you argue. (The Apostle Paul argued in Synagogues about Jesus -- Book of Acts, 9:20; 17: 4, 17; compare Jude's postcard, verse 3.) His site's location is http://www.STR.org He can be heard via KBRT-AM (Avalon, Cal.; http://www.KBRT740.com ) during Sundays from 3 - 5 p.m., Pacific (currently Daylight-saving) Time.
Free Bible-quotations are provided @ http://www.christianity.com courtesy of the Salem Communications Corp. @ http://www.salem.cc _____________________________________ ――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――――― * "word" =, in Greek, rheema = specific statement, befitting the context. The other word translated as "word," i.e., logos, denotes a composition.
So said Rev. J.F. MacArthur, D.D., a clergyman at Grace Community Church, Sun Valley, Los Angeles (which consult @ http://www.GraceChurch.org --or-- his "Grace To You" broadcast @ http://www.gty.org --or-- the church's online Bible-study-articles & association of churches @ http://www.ShepherdsFellowship.org ).
Via the last link, a conference for clergymen is provided, having occurred March 4 - 6. Seminars and Sermons were presented The prerequisite to getting the stream is affirmation of the 5 basic doctines that the Cult-busters assert via Salem [radio] Corp. stations ( http://salem.cc --or-- kkla.com --or-- http://equip.org ). Phil Johnson spoke about the tendency toward randy sermons.
You cannot evaluate what you don't examine (1st Thessal. 5:~19).
Re: Jesus: man or God? « Result #5 on Jan 10, 2009, 11:40pm »
. Here's where a woman told me not long ago, when I was... She said, "Jesus wasn't the... divine." Said, "He was a good man, a good teacher, so forth, be good for people to live by that. Just like with Santa Claus, stories for the children. But," said, "he wasn't divine." I said, "Oh, yes He was Divine." Said, "No, he wasn't." I said, "He was." She said, "Look, I can prove it. When He went down to the grave of Lazarus, He cried like a man." I said, "Yes. I believe He was more than a man. I believe He was a God-man. I believe that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. I believe God lived in His son, dwelled in His Son, and reconciled the world to Himself by His Son." Do you believe that? I do with all my heart. And He was more than a man. He was God the... God the Son here on earth. Everything the Father had was in Him then. BELIEVEST_THOU_THIS MINNEAPOLIS_MN 07-16-50
86 And I believe that He was more than a man, He was God-man. And when He went down to the--to the grave, He cried like a man. That's true. But when He stood there, held Himself and said, told them to take away the stone, said, 'Lazarus, come forth.' When He raised the dead, He was more than a man. He was God. He was a man when He was crying, but He was God when He raised the dead. That's right. Yes, sir, He was Divine. And I tell you, when He come down off the mount that night, He was hungry like a man, when He was looking on the fig tree for something to eat, when He was hungry like a man. But when He took five biscuits and fed five thousand, He was God that was in His Son. He was a God-man. I know that He was. He was a man that night when He was laying in that boat out there, all the waves dancing around. Ten thousand devils of the sea swore they would drown Him. BELIEVEST_THOU_THIS MINNEAPOLIS_MN 07-16-50
87 He was a man when He was laying there on the back of that boat, tired and weary. But when He raised and put His foot on the brail, and looked up, said, "Peace, be still." It was God speaking through His Son. Hallelujah! I believe He was a God-man. He was more than a man. He was the Divine One that God sent from out of heaven. Yes, sir. I know He cried like a man when He was dying at the cross, mid rendering rocks and darkening skies, my Saviour bowed His head and died. That's right. He was a man when He was dying. But when He rose on the third day, He proved He was God. That's right. God was in His Son. He raised Him up. He was Divine. I believe every word of It. I can see Him walking down through that place there then, to the grave. Said, "Take ye away the stone." Look like if He'd have been a gentleman, He'd have took it away Himself. But He asked them women to. Why? You've got your part to do. Yes, sir. You've got to do your part. Said, "Take ye away the stone." And they took away the stone and the stink was so bad. And they was about to have suffocated there on account of that, a dead human body. BELIEVEST_THOU_THIS MINNEAPOLIS_MN 07-16-50
88 Then I can see Him straighten His little self up again; said, "Father, I thank Thee that Thou hearest Me always. But for these that stand by..." is why I said He'd already seen the vision. He knew what was going to happen. Then He cried with a loud voice and screamed, said, "Lazarus, come forth." I believe, brother, if He hadn't have called him specifically by the name of Lazarus, I believe the general resurrection would've took place then. That's what I think about Him. That's right. I believe the resurrection of every dead thing that had ever died would've come out of the grave if He had just said, "Come forth." Yes, sir. But He called, "Lazarus, come forth." I'm glad today that my name's on His Book. "One day He will call too, and I will answer," said Job. But there, He called on Lazarus, a man that had been dead four days, his body rotten, his soul four day's journey somewhere out in... BELIEVEST_THOU_THIS MINNEAPOLIS_MN 07-16-50
89 I don't know where it was, neither do you, so we won't argue about that. But that man's soul had been gone four days, returned back. And a dead man stood on his feet and lived again. Believest thou this? Yes, sir. I believe it. I believe He's the same yesterday, today, and forever. Believest thou this? I believe He was the One that spoke to the seas, and they stopped. Believest thou this? I believe that He said in His Words, "These things that I do, greater shall you do." Believest thou this? I believe that He said, "If you abide in Me, My Word abides in you, you can ask what you may, and it will be given to you." Believest thou this?
Constantine would have had trouble replacing all of the Bibles since there was dissent about the matter. The Gnostic Basilides ~A.D. 130 say that John's Gospel (1:9) is "in the Gospels" (-F.F. Bruce, "The New Testament Documents ...," 1994, pub. by Eerdmans, p. 51). _ _ Gnostics, who accepted the Nag Hammadi (Egypt) codices, also, said Prof. Bruce, "accepted practically the whole catholic [< with a small c] canon of the New Testament writings as early as the middle of the second century." They are described as "a very significant, if unorthodox, body of people in the second century."
The witnesses to the Apostles' doctrine Eusebius in the 4th century (in "Ecclesiastical History" part 3, paragraph 10) records that Papias, Bishop of Hieropolis (circa A.D. 130 - 140) had written about Mark, the author of the second Gospel. He says, ``And the presbyter [the Apostle John] said this: Mark having become the interpreter of Peter, wrote down accurately whatsoever he remembered. It was not, however, in exact order that he related the sayings or deeds of Cnrist. For he neither heard the Lord nor accompanied Him. But afterwards, as I said, he accompanied Peter, who accommodated his instructions to the necessities [of his hearers], but with no intention of giving a regular narrative of the Lord's sayings. Wherefore Mark made no mistake in thus writing some things as he remembered them. For of one thing he took especial care, not to omit anything he had heard, and not to put anything fictitious into the statements.'" From the "Exposition of the Oracles of the Lord" (6).
Justin Martyr, writing about A.D. 150, referred to the Gospel of Mark as "the memoirs of Peter," and suggested that Mark committed his gospel to writing while in Italy. This agrees with the uniform voice of early tradition, which regarded this gospel as having been written in Rome, for the benefit of Roman Christians. Irenaeus, writing about A.D. 185, called Mark "the disciple and interpreter of Peter," and recorded that the second gospel consisted of what Peter preached about Christ. The testimony of the church fathers differs as to whether this gospel was written before or after Peter's death (ca. A.D. 67 - 68).
(-The MacArthur Study Bible, p. 1420, published in 2006 by Nelson Bibles, a division of Thomas Nelson Publishers @ http://www.ThomasNelson.com ).
The title of the fourth gospel continues the pattern of the other gospels, being identified originally as "According to John." Like the others, "The Gospel" was added later. AUTHOR and DATE Although the author's name does not appear in the gospel early church tradition strongly and consistently identified him as the Apostle John. The early church father Irenaeus (ca. A.D. 130 - 200) was a disciple of Polycarp (ca. A.D. 70 - 160), who was a disciple of the Apostle John, and he testified on Polycarp's authority that John wrote the gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia Minor when he was advanced in age ("Against Heresies 2.22.5; 3.1.1). Subsequent to Irenaeus, all the church fathers assumed John to be the gospel's author. Clement of Alexandria ( ca. A.D. 150 - 215) wrote that John, aware of the a facts set forth in the other gospels and being moved by the Holy Spirit, composed a "spiritual gospel" (see Eusebeius' "Ecclesiastical History" 6.14.7). M.S.B., p. 1535.
Joined: Apr 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 51 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Jesus: man or God? « Result #8 on Dec 31, 2008, 9:04pm »
Part III -- New Testament Survey
1. > Isaiah 40:33, 10; Mat. 3:1 - 3; Luke 1:76 2. > Mat. 1:23 3. > John 1:1 Before the beginning (of Space-Time & of Matter-Energy), did "the Word," its creator, exist? (Consult verse 3). 4. > In that verse, what is the Word called? Hint: in the Greek it's [ee = eta], "En archee een ho logos, kai ho logos een pros ton theon, kai theos een ho logos. In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was toward the God, and God was the Word. 5. > Consult John 1:3; Colossians 1:16, 17; Hebrews 1:10 - 12; 2:10. 6. > In John 1:18, what 2 persons are named there? 7. > In verse 18, Jesus is called, "mono-genees theos," the only-begotten, unique God. (Other people were called "only-begotten" e.g. in Hebrews 11:17 (Isaac); Genesis 16:15; 25:5, 6.) 8. > Does John 1:18 explain appearances of YaHWeH-God? 9. > How was God called Jesus' own Father in John 5:18? 10. > Jesus affirms his equlity with God ("... we are one"). His purpose of his authority (v. 22) is given in v. 23: ``so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. ..." What is the condemnation that results from failure to do so (v. 23)? 11. > In John 10: 30 & 31, why did Jews attempt to kill Jesus? 12. > Why would they be upset (v. 33) if he referred to a common purpose with the "Father" God-personage? 13. > In John 8:24, 58, 59, what did they do when he says "I am"? [In Greek text, "he" does not follow "am" - it reads (oo = omega), Ameen, ameen legoo humin prin Abraam genesthai, egoo eimi. Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.] 14. > In John 20:27, 28, what did Thomas say "to him [Jesus]"? 15. > Did Rabbi Jesus deny the epithet (v. 29) or rebuke Thomas for mis-speaking? 16. > Contrast Jesus' behavior with that of angels when they received honor in Revelation 22:8, 9. Worship of Angels is derided Colossians 2:18. 17. > Hebrews 1:5, 6 God did not call an angel his Son. 18. > Whom do angels worship? 19. > What did angels in Isaiah say & to whom in chapter 6? 20. > If that was Jesus, is he an angel? 21. > In The Acts of the Apostles 14:11 - 18, how did the Apostle Paul react to being venerated? 22. > Why did the Disciples venerate Jesus & why did he accept it (apparently)? Confer Mat. 2:34; 8:2; 9:18; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52, John 9:38; 1st Corinthians 1:2? 23. > In Acts 20:28, Why is Jesus' blood called God's blood (which bought the Christians)? 24. > Romans 9:5 Who is "over all" and "God blessed forever"? 25. > Identify "The Rock of Israel" in Deuter-onomy 32:1 - 4. 26. > Who is the entity in 1st Corinthians 10:1 - 4? 27. > Col. 2.9 28. > Who is called "The Great God and Savior of us" in Titus 2:13? According to Protestants, the Greek text's structure this follows the Granville-Sharp rule of interpretation, where "and" means "even," i.e. "=". 29. > ... and in 2nd Peter 1:1? 30. > In 1st John 5:20, who is "the true God and eternal life"? 31. > Did the Father share glory (in John 17:5) with the Son? Would a created being receive that according to Isaiah 42:8? 32. > In Col. 1:16, 17, Christ predates all things, which he created, e.g. celestial, terrestrial, apparent & hidden entities (e.g., angels Eph. 1:20; col. 2:15 Gen. 3:15; John 12:31; 16:11; Heb. 2:14). What is the purpose of God's created things (Romans 11:33 - 36; Heb. 1:2)? 33. > Could the creator & sustainer "of all things" be one of them - dependent items? 34. > The (anonymous) Epistle to the Hebrews begins with a dissertation on Christ's superiority to created things. He is called "better" (kreittυn in Greek) in 1:4; 7:19, 22; 8:6; 9:23; 12:24. A.) In his revelation (verse 3) he is better than the Old Testament that was delivered by angels. B.) In v. 4 he is better than angels in his interitance. C.) Did the Father ever call an angel his Son? D.) In v. 6, .... E.) V. 7 is a description of angels. F.) In v. 8, what does grammar indicate about his identity? ("... About the Son a he [in Psalm 45:6 & 7] says, Your throne, O God, will last for ever .... therefore God, your God has set you above your companions ..." -New Ineternational Version.) G.) Who is (or are) those God[s] in Psalm 45? H.) Although created things are temporary (Heb. 1:11; Psalm 102:24), the Deity isn't. I.) How is Christ described in Heb. 13:8? ("... yesterday, today & forever"). J.) ``To which of the angels dod God ever say, `Sit at my right hand ...'" (1:13; Psalm 110:1)? K.) What does that clause mean? Co-regency, perhaps (-R.A.M.)? L.) Verse 13 concludes, "... until I make your enemies your footstool." It is repeated in Heb. 10:3; Mat. 22:44; Mark 12:36; Luke 20:43; Acts 2:35. Confer Joshua 10:24; Phil. 2:10. Sovereignty is in view (-M.S.B.). M.) Angelology - Ministering spirits (Psa. 103:20f; Dan. 7:10) for the benefit of Salvation's inheritors (Mat. 25:34; Mk. 10:17; Titus 3:7; Heb. 6:12). Salvation - Rom. 1:14; 1 Cor. 1:21; Heb. 2:3; 5:9; 9:28 M.S.B.
Joined: Apr 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 51 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: Heretics & Skeptics « Result #9 on Dec 30, 2008, 6:28am »
@ http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2373072738&topic=25923 Topic: Prayer for Christmas, ~ Dec. 26, 2008, I posted this -- In Post # 8, M.W. replied to Jonathan's question, "What makes you think the Bible is make believe?" saying, ``Becasue it is inconsistant, full of falacies, and impossibilities." T.R.: Conceivably (-Mark 10:27), "... all things are possible with ..." an Elohim in Genesis, verse 1, that are consonant with the Deity's character. But a square circle is a self-stultifying absurdity. _ _ Conflation of parallel accounts resolves problems. For instance There is no contradiction in Jesus' prophecy & fulfillment regarding Peter's apostasy (Mark 14:29, Matthew 26:33, John 13:38, Luke 22:34): omission is not denial (1 rooster-call instead of 2). In 3 locations beside the High Priest's residence, he assumes 2 postures among servants & soldiers enough variation in which to fit at least 4 denials, 3 of which precede the first call. I have A.T. Robertson's "A Harmony of the Gospels ..." originally pub. by Harper & Row, 1922. _ _ The aforesaid Prof. Hawkins taught Logic last week (Mon., Th., [Fri.?], Sat. @ http://www.HisChannel.com ) in the free, online "College of Theology." _ _ The Salem Communications Corp. provides Scripture quotations in several versions of the Bible, espeically, without registration, the Authorized "King James" Version, the New American Standard Bible, and Rupert Mudoch's/ Zondervan Corp.'s New International Version, @ http://salem.cc > http://www.kkla.com (radio station) > www.christianity. ...] M.W.: ``... There is no evidence of a global flood as portrayed regarding Noah's Ark," T.R.: TBN showed a photograph, taken by a lone climber, showing dark matter in a far off ridge. A few others testified to having entered or walked on the Ark. Thinking inductively as experimenters do, this is what you might expect if the thesis is true. _ _ I seem to recall that, on Mr. Ararat, there are fossils of aquatic animals at a high altitude (probably asserted on Carl Baugh's TV show on TBN, Tues.? [ http://www.tbn.org ]). _ _ Dr. Baugh's postulate of the eruption of water from a fissure can account for the Mid-atlantic ridge (I'll suggest it to M.T. @ "Faith" p. 3). ``there is no nonscriptual evidence of Jesus existing, there is no Roman record of a governor name Pontus Pilot," T.R.: The Orthodox Jews' Talmud (commentary on Israelite laws) deride a Jesus of Nazareth. I'll post details in "Jesus Christ - a man or God?" @ http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2373072738&topic=24476
"PONTIVS [Pontio?] PILATVS [Pilato?] PROCVRATOR" appears on a pillar at the Roman gov't building at Caesarea Philippi = Panias [N. Israel?] (-Prof. Hawkins, noting that the end of one of the words was eroded, but he didn't remember which; I saw it on John W. Montgomery's show, KTBN-TV, ~1985). _ _ A slab, found in a ruin, presumably originally part of a temple, says "PILATVS" with a tall T (seen via TBN, Benny Hinn's holiday broadcast ['07 or '8?]). _ _ National Geographic magazine, [~2000 ?] showed an inscription at the theater in Ephesus, W. Turkey, giving honor to Pilate. _ _ The 2nd century historian Cornelius Tacitus (AD 112, ~60 years old, "Annals of Imperial Rome" section 15.44) talks about Christians' leader Christus who was "executed by procurator Pontius Pilate when Tiberius was emperor" (quotations are available upon request). Suetonius (~AD 120, "Life of Nero") says that Emperor Claudius expelled Christians from Rome because of trouble instigated by Chrestus (a Gentile name for Christ according to F.F. Bruce in "The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?" published in 1994 by Wm. B. Eerdmans ... Co.). C. Plinius Secundus, a.k.a. Pliny (AD 112), Governor of Bithynia Province told Emperor Trajan that Christians worshiped Christ as God. Likewise Lucian, a 2nd C. satirist ("The Passing Peregruis"). He's one of >19 early pagan writers that refer to Christendom. The other names are available on request (which were broadcast by D. James Kennedy's TV-show, "The Coral Ridge Hour" via TBN, etc.). Funerary inscriptions correspond to Scripture. According to a TBN show with Grant Jeffrey, author of "The Signature of God" -- Under Bethany, a tomb in a cave bears the name Eliezer. It is the equivalent of Lazarus. Other names there are those of Lazarus' sisters in the Bible, Martha and Mary (or the equivalents, perhaps Mariam like Jesus' mother). A tomb bearing the name of Alexander, son of Simon of Cyrene, who totes Christ's cross in Mark 15:21, was found somewhere (I'll review the recording and repost). _ _ The ossuary of "Josephus Caiaphas" -- the High Priest according to John 18:13. I'll check Hershel Shank[s]' "Biblical Archeological Journal" for details online. ``the geneology of of Jesus is inconsistant" T.R.: Coherence is reasonable due to gaps in genealogies, which are common in the Bible (e.g. Matthew 1:1a) (-Rev. John F. MacArthur [ http://graceChurch.org ; http://www.gty.org ], D.D. conferred by Biola Univ., La Mirada, Cal.). ``(not to mention it is through Joseph when according to doctrine, Jesus was born of immaculate conception and Joesph was not even Jesus' father)," T.R.: Acts 2:30 quotes Psalm 132:11, so Mary is a descendant of David according to the Apostle Peter. ``the earth is 3.5 billion years old as opposed to 6000 as portrayed in the bible," T.R.: Ussher's choronolgy does not take into account any gaps in genealogies. The Rev. Dr. J.M. allows for ~10,000 years of human history. _ _ "Progressive Creationism" or the "Day-Age Theory" about the book of Genesis (where some "days" are long periods) allow for the secular ages of the solar system (3.5 B.Y.) & for the unverse (16 ± 1 or 2 B.Y., according to Hugh Ross, PhD in Astro-physics, conferred by the Univ. of Toronto, http://www.reasons.org ). _ _ I'll be reading MacArthur's "The Battle for the Beginning," a rejoinder to Ross' book "The Fingerprint of God," in addition to "Scientific Creationism" by Henry Morris, late from The Institute for Creation Research ( http://www.icr.org ), etc. ``the earth is a sphere and not flat as indicated in the bible," T.R.: Isaiah 40:22 describes the view from outside the Earth. It looks like a disk. It's phenomen[o]-logical language. The New American Standared Bible, a favorite of Protestants, reads, ``It is He who sits ~~above~~ the circle of the earth, ..." but the Authorized K.J. Version says, "He ... sits upon" it. ``people do not talk to burning bushes unless they are on drugs or delusional," T.R.: David Hume defined miracles away, he did not disprove them. ``I do not condone non-equal rights for women," ``Workers at home" (Titus 2:5) does not mean "homebodies." Another term is oiko·despot·eξn, i.e. to manage the household (1st Timothy 5:14). _ _ Litigious women may oppress men, who pursue mental chastity while chanting, "Women neither toys nor lettuce be" (pursuant to Matthew 5:28). _ _ Dictatorship is forbidden among believers - Matthew 20:25. _ _ Ephesians 5:21 directs likeminded couples to submit to each other out of reverence for Christ, in agreement with whose alien will, ideally, they married to obey it. ``I don't kill homosexuals," T.R.: The Canaanites, who were commonly afflicted by V.D., might have welcomed effeminate emigrants. ``I don't keep slaves," T.R.: Indentured servitude under Moses' Law is different than Christian Era bondage. All Jewish slaves had to be released from service in each Year of Jubilee, which occurred each 50th year in the calendar (Leviticus 25:39, 40). Oppression was prohibited -- Exodus 21:16, 26f; Leviticus 25:10; Deu·ter·σ·no·my 23:15f. ``and I don't kill anyone for working on the sabbath." The Rev. Dr. says that Moses had to initially impress upon the wandering Jews that God was serious. _ _ Exodus 31:14f & Numbers 15:32ff relate to the period before Hebrews entered Canaan. After the Babylonian Captivity, people were bringing their wares to market on Saturday, presumably unpunished (I'll read Nehemiah 13:15f). _ _ Sleep deprivation probably causes acidosis: magnesium (which aids the metabolism of calcium, which replaces the acid in cells) is retained by means of adrenaline. The minimum necessary amount there-of is produced during 5 or more hours of deep sleep. (-A Dr. of Nutrition, Robert J. Marshall [ http://www.healthline.cc ], PhD conferred by UCLA; he's heard via radio and internet, e.g., Sat. @ noon Pacific Time http://www.kbrt740.com , KBRT-AM 740 in So. Cal.) ``These are but a few. I can carry on if you like." T.R.: Please, have at us. I have a few study Bibles, commentaries and a few thin Apologetics books. I've fulfilled the collegiate General Education requirements.
J.: "13 books of which were written by one of Jesus' followers called Apostles"
M.W.: ``It is not proven that any of the books were written by a disciple. There is still debate out there today as to which John wrote the gospels of John." ``In three works whose date is probably round about AD 100 -- the 'Epistle of Barnabas,' ...; the Didache, or 'Teaching of the Twelve Apostles,' produced somewhere in Syria or Palestine; and the letter sent ... by Clement, bishop of Rome, about AD 96 -- we find fairly certain quotations from the common tradition of the Synoptic Gospels [= Matthew, Mark and Luke] from Acts, {{Romans, 1st Corinthians, Ephesians, Titus}} [= Paul's], Hebrews, 1 Peter, and possible quotations from other books of the New Testament." (-F.F. Bruce, p. 18.) _ _ Incidentally, the Epistle of Barnabas quotes 2nd Peter, which in 3:16 calls Paul's epistles "Scriptures" (p. 22). _ _ ``There are three [epistles] which bear no name, but because of their obvious affinities with the fourth Gospel, have been known from early days as the Epistles of John" (p. 11). _ _ ``In the letters written by Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, as he journeyed to his martyrdom in Rome in AD 115, there are reasonably identifiable quotations from Matthew, ~~John~~, Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, and possible allusions to Mark, Luke, Acts, ~~Colossians~~, 2 Thessalonians, Philemon, Hebrews, and 1 Peter. _ _ ``His younger contemporary, Polycarp, in a letter to the Philippians (c. 120) quotes from the common tradition of the Synoptic Gospels, from Acts, Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Hebrews, 1 Peter, and ~~1 John~~" (p. 18 & 19). _ _ ``The Gnostic Basilides (circa AD 130) cites John 1:9 as 'in the Gospels'" (p. 51). _ _ About 4 Gospels he says, ``At a very early date it appears that the four Gospels were united in one collection. They must have been brought together very soon after the writing of the Gospel according to John [traditionally AD 90 - 100, he says elsewhere]. This fourfold collection was known originally as `The Gospel' in the singular, not `The Gospels' in the plural; there was only one Gospel, narrated in four records, distinguished as `according to Matthew,' .... About AD 115 Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, refers to `The Gospel' as an authoritative writing, and as he knows more than one of the four `Gospels' it may well be that by `The Gospel' ... he means the fourfold collection which went by that name" (p. 23). ~AD 180 Irenζus, bishop of Lyons in Gaul, calls it "the gospel in fourfold form" (p. 24). _ _ ``The only books about which there was any substantial doubt after the middle of the second century were some of those which come at the end of our New Testament. Origen (185 - 254) mentions the four Gospels, the Acts, the thirteen Paulines, 1 Peter, ~~1 John & Revelation~~ as acknowledged by all; he says that Hebrews, 2 Peter, 2 & 3 John, James and Jude, with the Epistle of Barnabas, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, and the Gospel according to the Hebrews, were disputed by some" (p. 25).
Joined: Apr 2004 Gender: Male Posts: 51 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Heretics & Skeptics « Result #10 on Dec 30, 2008, 6:12am »
@ http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=23....099ab1ae7ca8ac3 regarding FAITH (is Evolution religious?), p. 4, ~Dec. 28, 2008, in Post 86, A.P. says, ``He [the Nazarene] was not the Son of God, read your bloody Bible. He called himself `Son of Man." I'm pleased that Mr. A.P. has afforded us this challenge to intellectually justify oneself. Consider Peter's confession, recorded in "Matthew's Gospel." Why would this Son say in Matt. 16's parallel passage in Luke 19:21+, ``not to tell this to anyone"? He had to go to Jerusalem to ``suffer many things ... and be rejected ... and be killed and be raised up on the third day." _ _ He affirms the epithet (S.o.G.). There are more than 3 reports of him doing so. Additional citations Matthew's Gospel 14:33; John 1:49; 10:36; 11:4, 27; Luke 22:70. Additionally, an Angel tells his prospective mother a prophecy ... (Luke 1:25). _ _ Rev. C.I. Scofield's Reference Bible (published in 1909 by Oxford University Press, in New York) offers an explanation for "Son of Man": his scope of judgment extends beyond Israel, corresponding to which land Nate calls him, sans rebuff, the King (John 1:~49), etc. At Matthew 8:20, he wrote concerning that title, ``Confer Ezekiel 2:1 note [available on request]. Our Lord ths designates Himself about eighty times. It is a His racial name as the representative Man, in the sense f 1 Corinthians 15:45 - 47; as Son of David is distinctively His Jewish name, and Sod of God His divine name. Our Lord constantly uses this term as implying that His mission (e.g. Mt. 11:19; Lk. 19:10), His death and resurrection (e.g. Mt. 12:40;20:18; 26:2), and His second coming (e.g. Mt. 24:37 - 44; Lk. 12:40), transcended in scope and result all merely Jewish limitations. ... When His messengers are cast out by the Jews, His thought leaps forward to the time when the Son of man shall come, not then to Israel only but to the race (Mt. 10:5, 6 with v. 23). It is in this name, also, that universal judgment is committed to Him (John 5:22, 27). It is also a name indicating that in Him is fulfilled the O.T. foreview of blessing through a comng man (Gen. 1:26 [his Note shall be available on request]; Gen. 3:15; 12:3; Psa. 8:4; 80:17; Isa. 7:14; 9:5, 7; 32:2; Zech. 13:7)." Coming soon a New Testament Survey, paraphrased from "How To Answer A Jehovah's Witness," to be posted here or @ CSUN's old BBS @ http://dailySUNDIAL.proboards30.com . ``The Bible was written by men. Mainly by Constantine's bishops 300 years after Jesus died." Long before Constantine, the Fourfold Gospel had been assembled. The epistles of Paul were about that time also accepted. Church Fathers quoted & alluded to them, including Paul & John's anti-Gnostic epistles, Colossians & John's 1st one. If you desire details, confer "Prayer for Christmas," located @ http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2373072738&topic=25923 ``Given the time of year, let's throw another bone your way. Where was Jesus born? Nazareth of course. He was referred to as Jesus of Nazareth as that's where his family lived and died. Where he lived and was born. Why wasn't he called Jesus of Bethlehem? Because he had no connection to it of course." The tomb of Octavian Augustus says that he conducted more than one census (if I recall the Rev. Dr. D. James Kennedy/ Coral Ridge Ministries - http://www.crm.org [?]). A Professor of Apologetics at Trinity Graduate School, C.S. Hawkins ( http://apologeticsinfo.org ) says about an Egyptian papyrus which says, ``Because of the approaching census, it is necessary that all those residing for any cause away from their homes should at once prepare to return to their own governments in order that they may complete the family registration of the Enrollment, and that the tilled lands may return those belonging to them." ``Think about it. Three old guys with gifts of tree sap go searching for a `special' child. Signified by a bright star. Anywhere in the Middle East would have been directly under that star Sam. ...." Why would Magi from Persia migrate to Palestine? Because Daniel prophesied that the boy king would die, hence the myrrh (Daniel 9:25). _ _ About the Star, 2 explanations have been offered. The History channel notes that Jupiter was eclipsed by the Moon in Ares, the ram, seen on a Syrian coin with a star, Jupiter/ Zeus on the obverse (-an ex-Prof., late from Rutgers Univ., author of "The Star of Bethlehem" [?]). The astro-physicist Hugh Ross (late from TBN, PhD conferred by the Univ. of Toronto, BS by U. of B.C., Canada) says that because the Bible's star recurrs after ~ a month it may have been a recurring nova. According Ed Krupp, former director of the Griffith Observatory in L.A. County (/City?), a white dwarf star accretes & ejects material. A large star's nova occurs once. (H.R. elaborates at his site - http://www.reasons.org ). A.P.: ``And don't start the "Slaughter of the innocent" crap. Never happened. Historical fact. In the end Herod only let him die because he was King of the Jews, the real King of the Jews and had been for 40+ years. Jesus was given that title and Herod was not thrilled by such." A slaughter of Jews in the Temple, conducted by Herod the Tetrarch (a son of Herod the Great) wasn't recorded, either. That doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
![[Home]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/menu/home.gif)
![[Help]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/menu/help.gif)
![[Search]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/menu/search.gif)
![[Login]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/menu/login.gif)
![[Register]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/menu/register.gif)
![[Search This Thread]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/search2.gif)
![[Reply]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/buttons/reply.gif)
![[Send Topic To Friend]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/buttons/sendtopic.gif)
![[Print]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/buttons/print.gif)
Author
![[Quote]](http://s4.images.proboards.com/buttons/quote.gif)
Logged